Worlock, a Q about your method. - the Hive BB

Worlock, a Q about your method.

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Author	Topic: Worlock, a Q about your method.
AbSoLuTe Member	posted 11-20-1999 03:51 AM Hi worlock, I normally go the electro route, but was cruising around and found your site about a fortnite ago so I dreampt real hard and got into a lucid state,got some Rp I E and decided to give it a go. All worked as written, no problems except identifing the Rxn which I now know, different to Fester's. Xtracted to Pet Eth and gassed to give a 78% yield. My Q is, what should or does it smell like? It smells pretty awful/strange compared to electro, sort of ketoneish. Also, should it be white as mine is slightly yellow/brown, maybe an excess of I. All in all though a good dream, and congrats on the site, all new bees should be directe there.
readyeddie Member	posted 11-20-1999 10:41 AM AbSoLuTe i have a question for you the question is in your electro dreams what kind of sulfuric acid did you dream with?
Worlock Member	posted 11-20-1999 10:02 PM This is the common method in my area. It allows much room for individual variations. Your yield is above average. The highest I have seen was 86% by wieght the lowest is typically 50% by wight and the most common yield is 66% by weight. The reaction often presents itself with different looks, it has been difficult(impossible) to describe it. As the same good result can occurr from what might look like a poor reaction that failed. Once dry it is basically odorless, however I don't gas it, but concentrate it by evaporating it from a distilled water solution. The product is pristine white and cryptocrystaline when prepared from water evaporation. A brownish discoloring may arise from certain brands of ephedrine or pseudo. I imagine it is related to a filler in some tablets. I doubt it is iodine which typically is more yellow, and seems to darken after a day or so. Plus the iodine often is gone after running the reaction mix through the phosphorus filters a second time or third. And the lye forms NaI which gets flushed. The brown is usually removed by 2-3 hot d-water washes of the fuel/freebase after the lye/water/waste has been separated off. These washes usually clean most all the trash out leaving it tasting bitter on the tongue but very sweet to smoke. The shooters love it not sure why, but I guess it is due to the water evaporation, leaving it more water soluble, than the gasses product. The other way to remove the brown is to crush the meth to granules and wash the brown out with acetone. Did the original E have a brownish appearence at all? Probably not since heat seems to begin the discoloration process. If you repeat it, use 3 or 4 hot d-water washes after removing the lye, this should clear up those substances that slipped through with Sodium in the lye.
kat600 Member	posted 11-21-1999 01:40 AM I have dreamt that when at the end of the process of cooking the water off to obtain the meth xtals, if one simply adds acetone to the oil while it is being heated it produces pretty flakes and also cleans product. Some of the dreams I've had, have been pure as the driven snow as far as looks and texture go. Becareful not to spill any acetone on burner though.
AbSoLuTe Member	posted 11-21-1999 05:50 AM Worlock, no the E was very clean and white, have got a real good Xtraction worked out on them , usually 95%-98% and have had it Gas Chromoed by a friend.Mine is the same principles as your, but in a different order. I actually went to the trouble today of Distilling the Pet Ether down to about 30% of origional and went with the Xtraction of DH2O and Hcl and was presently suprised to get another 3.6 Grams out, which would put the yield up into the low 80's. I ahve found that most of the product seems to get caught up in the emulsion layer, and it is definately worth the effort to break that layer, I find that after shaking , if you don't get a build up of pressure in the Pear flask, then you have got it all to go in the non-polar. As I was trying to brreak the emulsion up (tried ethanol stirring Lady vibrator) the only thing that worked well and quick was some plain salt that I had dried in the oven. Added it in and shake , shake, no more emulsion. The problems with gasssing are only out weighted by the quick Xtalisation of product, rather than waiting for evaporation, as if you rush the evap (heating dry air fans etc) you always loose some product to the enviroment. Anyway, all in all, a very good dream. If only I could dream Elle to be my asssistant at a Bali beach setting.
Worlock Member	posted 11-21-1999 07:31 AM After reading your very kind comments I updated "Part 3 Reaction" section. To the methods I now employ, some corrections and easier reading. The emulsion layer must be cleared out, as you have stated. I have had good luck by running it through a single filter after dumping the lye water this seems to remove the brownish. The hot water washes remove the grey gakk and most other BS. The grey gakk I believe to be a waxy substance, of damaged ephed or meth molecules containing Iodine, that leaves a bitter taste on smoking and turns brown with heat leaving a residue on glass. The hot water cleans this up nicely, it can be seen as a dull grey film when the water is evaporated from the meth. With the extra filtering and carefull washes I get nice white crystal, every time, even if the E is a bit trashy. In addition often there are a few grams of Meth in the first few feet of the hose leading to the push pull. I have recovered very little Meth from the used phosphorus, since it is rinsed once with water after filtering the reaction mix is complete I have noted the brown is more prevalent with some brands of E than with others? and it only shows up after the reaction so it may also be damaged E and Iodin. I suspect if the E is damaged in certain spots that the Iodine sometimes will not be released from the molecule or an additional I- might attach , either way the stuff is similar to E and probably contains I-, I'm just happy it can be removed easily. Updated site 11/21/99 http://www.catrachas.com/alkaline/start.html My favorite is the electrolytic, still have the equipment. What are your returns on the Electro method? You using Palladium, the ester, GAA, Sulfuric? What volts, currrent, and length of time? You know I suspect we had made some good electro that was the acetate salt, and did now know what to do with it, any thought there?
SunriseSpecial Member	posted 11-21-1999 08:09 AM Quick question Worlock: What do YOU use for non-polar and NaOH in your extractions. It is unclear to me what non-polar to use. Some bees say that Naptha just sucks, and that there should be no substitute for Toluene. Also, the late asshole-ball said that drain cleaner is not an acceptable source of NaOH and that Red Devil lye (or only 100% NaOH) should be used. Is A/B really that sensitive of a process?
Worlock Member	posted 11-21-1999 08:19 AM The amount of time spent evaporating water can be greatly reduced by using very little water when setting the final pH. A hundred to 200 mls will do 1-2 oz of products. You need some water but not much, just enough to shake up with the fuel. The problem is, it is so concentrated, hate to loose a drop, as it represents more meth than water. The emulsion must be made up of molecules that are part polar and part non-polar, meth fits that description very well. Ephedrine fits it better. Thanks Kat I'll give your process a go next round up. The people around here, want the look to be sparkling and shiny crystals like diamonds. It could be worthless but if it sparkles they don't care?? That which glitters is not always gold. It is cosmetics that catch the eye . 3 months ago was quantity, fluffy big bags, 2 months ago was chunkus, big rocks last month was glass shards. this month is diamonds what is next, sheets of clear window pane, no doubt
Worlock Member	posted 11-21-1999 08:48 AM Sunrise Non-polar I am now using wizard and kingsford charcoal lighter fluid with excellent results, I switched to toluene several months ago, and did not care for the after taste, the ether was interesting and OK. The trick with the naptha is it contains a little bit of some waxes that are also slightly water soluble, when they get a hold of some Sodium, the hot d-water washes as described above cleaned it out wonderfully and the lighter fluids are orderless and tateless. Naptha is excellent for meth but not so good with ephedrine, another plus actually. Red Devil, I have filtered it, and seen very little difference, the stuff is flushed anyway. Have never seen any real evidence of heavy metal contamination from any source, just a lot of speculation. You won't get any better by using the Chemical grade , only if you go to a pharmaceutical grade, will it be prepared more carefully, it is over 99.95% or 99.7% pure. The A/B is not that sensitive on the high end get it over 12 and it is happening, some people eyeball the pH levels all the way through , watch to see the E come to the top for the High end and use other signs on the low end. But you must get the high end up there over pH-12. I used a lot of homemade red cabage pH paper and the shit always came out great
Xanion Member	posted 11-21-1999 12:42 PM Worlock have used tour extraction method for very good snowy dreams am to dreaming of nuclear reactions in next few days. Question is your push/pull reactor vessals filled with water or just gas.Thx. oswell was a true story ------------------ X anion
manic Member	posted 11-21-1999 02:36 PM ?. push/pull tanks filled with dh20. reaction vessel contains e,i,rp,h202/dh2o. after reaction p/p tanks will have HI gas in dh2o. you can recover I i think right.
Worlock Member	posted 11-22-1999 07:05 AM The P/P contains water, only enough water such that if all the water ends up in one tank, it will not get sucked into the reaction flask, or blow out the far end. As manic has said the Iodine can be recovered from the P/P tanks once there is enough in ithem to coillor them redish, I used swimming pool chlorine (Sodium hypochlorite) to precipitate out the I2. Iodine may also be recovered from the waste water / lye solution of the reaction vessel. Sometimes this is a substantial amount. this is tricky it involves adding HCl a few drops of dish soap, then peroxide or Sodium Hypochlorite. The soap prevents the oils from trapping the iopdiude and making a slimy red mess. The soap and the chlorine are washed out of the iodine crystals, using water,when finished
dwarfer Member	posted 11-22-1999 07:54 PM Hey Warlock: you actually considering returning to an electro-mode??
buzzard Junior Member	posted 11-22-1999 10:22 PM the brown color might be a result of a small amount of the freebase/solvent contaminating the meth/water take your time!
AbSoLuTe Member	posted 11-23-1999 03:17 AM So dont you believe in using Hypo (sodium Thiosulfate) to destroy the remaining I? I always do this , as I in the product is not good. This is easy to get, from most Photographic store, and you only need a few 10mg's per 10gr E.
Worlock Member	posted 11-23-1999 10:03 AM Oh good, someone who is in a playful mood. So.......... Here I go, again, where is that soap box. "Thiosulfate" No problem if used properly. Thiosulfate donates an electron pair to I2 in acid solution as long as it is "added slowly and mixed well" 2S2O3-- + I2 >> S4O6-- + 2I- otherwise thiosulfate deteriorates in acid solution.< pH 5 S2O3-- + H+ <> HS2O3- > HSO2- + S So..... Sodium Thiosulfate is best if added after the solution is hit with lye. Now then, I know the guru Uncle Fester puts it in the acid, and it will work, because the thiosulfate and I2 react incredibly fast, but if an excess of the thiosulfate is used then it is broken down in acid whereas it is stable in alkaline. I use Sodium Thiocyanate, because I have a life time supply of it and it does the same thing. The thiocyanate tends kick ass on the emulsion and binds up heavy metals. It has a distinctive odor, that I have noticed in some of the stanky versions of crank. So there must be a method similar the the I2/thiosulfate synthesis that uses thiocyanate. However, with RP there is way around the I2 problem without using either. That is re-filtering the solution through the phosphorus laden filters a second and third time. This , will remove the I2 unless the solution is totally overloaded with I2. This is one advantage to a high velocity buchner vacuum filtration setup, using the correct filter paper, it can easily filter most solutions in under 60 sec. So it is not a problem filtering solutions 4-5 times. Show me two cooks that use identical methods. Hell, most don't even cook it the same way twice. Amazing that this one molecule has been approached from so many different perspectives. Gotta hand it to the Cranksters, they are an ingenious bunch of maniacs. I mean, look at the electrolytic Dwarfogen D-series by Dwarfer, a truly all around device. I'm never sure if I am supposed to kneel before it, shit in it, or make speed with it. Just teasing you Dwarfer, I would never pray to it or attempt to make speed with it.<yuk-yuk>
Worlock Member	posted 11-23-1999 11:26 AM Revised site again Thanks Absolute.

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